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	<title>Comments for tiribiv</title>
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	<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>The Pursuit of the Nature of Things</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 17:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Do We Need an &#8220;Evangelical Manifesto&#8221;? by mikerucker</title>
		<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/do-we-need-an-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>mikerucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 03:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-71</guid>
		<description>i'm with you - i think we need one.

and i'm enjoying reading the various opinions here and there around the web.  i had some hesitations and misgivings before reading the document, but i'm actually quite impressed and invigorated after taking in the whole of what it addresses.  

one of the things i like is that the authors have chosen &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; to list creationism and inerrancy as non-negotiables. for the first, there's very little biblical justification anymore behind whatever the latest flavor of anti-natural-selection dessert is being served up; for the latter, somehow we can admit that we can't prove the existence of God, but goshdarnit we have a golden egg this unprovable God laid right here.  still, some people hold to these positions; so be it.  there's simply too much of a tendency to add items to the ever-increasing laundry list of ideas and doctrines to which we have to pledge allegiance before we're allowed into the room marked "Christian."

nothing's going to please everybody, and there are a few things i object to.  for instance, i don't agree with this statement: &lt;i&gt;We Evangelicals should be defined theologically, and not politically, socially, or culturally.&lt;/i&gt;  Jesus' message uses "action" verbs: teach them to DO as I have commanded you, LOVE God and LOVE your neighbor, by this will all men know ... if you LOVE one another. any theology that defines us must have feet.

i did, however, like these words:  &lt;i&gt;We are also troubled by the fact that the advance of globalization and the emergence of a global public square finds no matching vision of how we are to live freely, justly, and peacefully with our deepest differences on the global stage.&lt;/i&gt;  somehow, we've got to figure out how we're going to peacefully share the same bathroom over the next few decades in our ever-shrinking world.

one interesting thing: maybe i missed it, but there doesn't seem to be a great emphasis on &lt;i&gt;evangelism&lt;/i&gt; in this &lt;i&gt;Evangelical&lt;/i&gt; Manifesto. do you think that was intentional? i didn't see a single chick tract referenced in the bibliography...

more than anything, i find myself motivated and energized by the very positive nature of the piece - that it isn't yet another "here's everything we're &lt;i&gt;against&lt;/i&gt;" rant but an effort to make the gospel again a message of &lt;i&gt;good news&lt;/i&gt;. imagine that - the gospel being &lt;i&gt;good news&lt;/i&gt;. American Christianity has lost this defining characteristic that once served it well.

perhaps one unintended benefit of the proposal is a clear opportunity to take this EM (Evangelical Manifesto) and align it with the other EM (&lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&#38;location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FEmergent-Manifesto-Hope-emersion-communities%2Fdp%2F080106807X%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1210257943%26sr%3D8-2&#38;tag=mwc04-20&#38;linkCode=ur2&#38;camp=1789&#38;creative=9325" rel="nofollow"&gt;Emergent Manifesto&lt;/a&gt;) and finally have all our EM &#38; EMs in a row without demonizing the other side.

one can only hope...

mike rucker
fairburn, georgia, usa
&lt;a href="http://mikerucker.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;mikerucker.wordpress.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m with you - i think we need one.</p>
<p>and i&#8217;m enjoying reading the various opinions here and there around the web.  i had some hesitations and misgivings before reading the document, but i&#8217;m actually quite impressed and invigorated after taking in the whole of what it addresses.  </p>
<p>one of the things i like is that the authors have chosen <i>not</i> to list creationism and inerrancy as non-negotiables. for the first, there&#8217;s very little biblical justification anymore behind whatever the latest flavor of anti-natural-selection dessert is being served up; for the latter, somehow we can admit that we can&#8217;t prove the existence of God, but goshdarnit we have a golden egg this unprovable God laid right here.  still, some people hold to these positions; so be it.  there&#8217;s simply too much of a tendency to add items to the ever-increasing laundry list of ideas and doctrines to which we have to pledge allegiance before we&#8217;re allowed into the room marked &#8220;Christian.&#8221;</p>
<p>nothing&#8217;s going to please everybody, and there are a few things i object to.  for instance, i don&#8217;t agree with this statement: <i>We Evangelicals should be defined theologically, and not politically, socially, or culturally.</i>  Jesus&#8217; message uses &#8220;action&#8221; verbs: teach them to DO as I have commanded you, LOVE God and LOVE your neighbor, by this will all men know &#8230; if you LOVE one another. any theology that defines us must have feet.</p>
<p>i did, however, like these words:  <i>We are also troubled by the fact that the advance of globalization and the emergence of a global public square finds no matching vision of how we are to live freely, justly, and peacefully with our deepest differences on the global stage.</i>  somehow, we&#8217;ve got to figure out how we&#8217;re going to peacefully share the same bathroom over the next few decades in our ever-shrinking world.</p>
<p>one interesting thing: maybe i missed it, but there doesn&#8217;t seem to be a great emphasis on <i>evangelism</i> in this <i>Evangelical</i> Manifesto. do you think that was intentional? i didn&#8217;t see a single chick tract referenced in the bibliography&#8230;</p>
<p>more than anything, i find myself motivated and energized by the very positive nature of the piece - that it isn&#8217;t yet another &#8220;here&#8217;s everything we&#8217;re <i>against</i>&#8221; rant but an effort to make the gospel again a message of <i>good news</i>. imagine that - the gospel being <i>good news</i>. American Christianity has lost this defining characteristic that once served it well.</p>
<p>perhaps one unintended benefit of the proposal is a clear opportunity to take this EM (Evangelical Manifesto) and align it with the other EM (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&amp;location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FEmergent-Manifesto-Hope-emersion-communities%2Fdp%2F080106807X%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1210257943%26sr%3D8-2&amp;tag=mwc04-20&amp;linkCode=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325" rel="nofollow">Emergent Manifesto</a>) and finally have all our EM &amp; EMs in a row without demonizing the other side.</p>
<p>one can only hope&#8230;</p>
<p>mike rucker<br />
fairburn, georgia, usa<br />
<a href="http://mikerucker.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">mikerucker.wordpress.com</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on CRC Synod 2008: Part 2 by CRC Synod 2008: Part 1 &#171; tiribiv</title>
		<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/crc-synod-2008-part-2/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>CRC Synod 2008: Part 1 &#171; tiribiv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 17:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/?p=49#comment-66</guid>
		<description>[...] CRC Synod 2008: Part 2 Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Form of Subscription RevisionA [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] CRC Synod 2008: Part 2 Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Form of Subscription RevisionA [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Second Look at the CRC Form of Subscription Debate by CRC Synod 2008: Part 1 &#171; tiribiv</title>
		<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/a-second-look-at-the-form-of-subscription-debate/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>CRC Synod 2008: Part 1 &#171; tiribiv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 17:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-65</guid>
		<description>[...] There were a few study committees, as always. The most significant and controversial is the one studying the Form of Subscription, about which I have already written about here and re-examined in light of some overtures. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There were a few study committees, as always. The most significant and controversial is the one studying the Form of Subscription, about which I have already written about here and re-examined in light of some overtures. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on CRC Form of Subscription Revision by CRC Synod 2008: 1 - BOT and Summary &#171; tiribiv</title>
		<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/form-of-subscription-revision/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>CRC Synod 2008: 1 - BOT and Summary &#171; tiribiv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-28</guid>
		<description>[...] again, write about this seperately. (However, there are no significant recommendations.) I have already written about my position on the Form of Subscription [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] again, write about this seperately. (However, there are no significant recommendations.) I have already written about my position on the Form of Subscription [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Emerging Church Case Study: Evergreen Community, Portland by Fortuitous Bouncing &#171; Man of Depravity</title>
		<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/2008/03/22/emerging-church-case-study-evergreen-community-portland/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Fortuitous Bouncing &#171; Man of Depravity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 08:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/?p=28#comment-12</guid>
		<description>[...] A church or community that meets in a bar in Portland. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A church or community that meets in a bar in Portland. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Suburban Ministry, Part 1 by John</title>
		<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/suburban-ministry-part-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Todd:
Sorry about that, got that fixed.

When I have had time to formulate those further thoughts, I will certainly remember your offer. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd:<br />
Sorry about that, got that fixed.</p>
<p>When I have had time to formulate those further thoughts, I will certainly remember your offer. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Suburban Ministry, Part 1 by Todd Hiestand</title>
		<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/suburban-ministry-part-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Hiestand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-6</guid>
		<description>hey, wait a minute... i know Alan is a  smart dude but i think i wrote that! :)

seriously though, if you have any further thoughts feel free to send them my way.  this is a difficult subject to work out...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey, wait a minute&#8230; i know Alan is a  smart dude but i think i wrote that! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>seriously though, if you have any further thoughts feel free to send them my way.  this is a difficult subject to work out&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Emerging Church Case Study: Evergreen Community, Portland by Chip</title>
		<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/2008/03/22/emerging-church-case-study-evergreen-community-portland/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Chip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/?p=28#comment-5</guid>
		<description>The Evergreen Community does have a desire to grow, but we desire to grow in a way that works with our philosophy of community and relationship and not against it.  One large gathering, as opposed to several smaller ones still allows us to be known in community.  The last quoted paragraph says, "at the same time we seek to grow through continually starting new communities where more people can gather and seek to love and serve each other and the neighborhood in which we meet and live." Growth is essential to any gathering seeking to manifest the kingdom of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Evergreen Community does have a desire to grow, but we desire to grow in a way that works with our philosophy of community and relationship and not against it.  One large gathering, as opposed to several smaller ones still allows us to be known in community.  The last quoted paragraph says, &#8220;at the same time we seek to grow through continually starting new communities where more people can gather and seek to love and serve each other and the neighborhood in which we meet and live.&#8221; Growth is essential to any gathering seeking to manifest the kingdom of God.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Emerging Church Case Study: Evergreen Community, Portland by Tyler</title>
		<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/2008/03/22/emerging-church-case-study-evergreen-community-portland/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/?p=28#comment-4</guid>
		<description>I got it now. I thought you were talking about your church and supporting that mindset. I see now what you were saying...that is is one facet is what emerging church could mean or look like. Makes more sense to me now. 

My problem with this is that because they have no desire to grow, they will likely become a stagnant church as far as evangelism goes.  A megachurch has the ability to reach many many people on Sunday and uses the weekdays for smaller groups to meet for discipleship that is more personal. I don't see a problem with this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got it now. I thought you were talking about your church and supporting that mindset. I see now what you were saying&#8230;that is is one facet is what emerging church could mean or look like. Makes more sense to me now. </p>
<p>My problem with this is that because they have no desire to grow, they will likely become a stagnant church as far as evangelism goes.  A megachurch has the ability to reach many many people on Sunday and uses the weekdays for smaller groups to meet for discipleship that is more personal. I don&#8217;t see a problem with this.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Emerging Church Case Study: Evergreen Community, Portland by John</title>
		<link>http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/2008/03/22/emerging-church-case-study-evergreen-community-portland/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 12:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiribiv.wordpress.com/?p=28#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Tyler:
That doesn't make sense to me either. A church of any size can have pomo/emerging views.

In the last quoted paragraph, whoever was writing for Evergreen Community expressed that size would work against their vision, though. I think they are expressing that they value a sense of extremely tight community, which becoming a "megachurch" would work against. They would rather start a group of many smaller churches, with this community, than grow into one huge one without.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyler:<br />
That doesn&#8217;t make sense to me either. A church of any size can have pomo/emerging views.</p>
<p>In the last quoted paragraph, whoever was writing for Evergreen Community expressed that size would work against their vision, though. I think they are expressing that they value a sense of extremely tight community, which becoming a &#8220;megachurch&#8221; would work against. They would rather start a group of many smaller churches, with this community, than grow into one huge one without.</p>
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